I’ve gotten over being mad, now I’m just sort of sad. Found some stuff this morning and I’m having trouble not taking it personally. This is the worst I’ve felt since taking on the adventure of building Clover. Not sure what to do about it.
I discovered this morning that a bunch of our employees including some of my most trusted managers are setting the coffee grinder to a very very fine setting when making coffee for themselves. I was assured “we always do it right for customers,” and before that sentence was finished I just felt worse. This isn’t a case of poor training on technique, it’s a case of employees not buying into what we’re doing.
This is in a world where Rolando and I have literally criss-crossed the country to meet roasters, tasted thousands of coffees, tested every paper filter we could find, scrutinized every type of pouring method, invested in water filtration equipment, spent days and weeks training on coffee. So it sort of feels like having some of my most trusted managers spit on me.
And when I get out of the really bad mood this has put me in I’m going to have to start the hard work of figuring out what to do about this. Our coffee is built on a fundamental belief that we’re building the future of coffee. We’re serving beans from the best growers in the world, carefully selected by the best roasters, and sweating to make sure we get that cup to you just right each day. I don’t mind that we screw it up sometimes, never like it when that happens, but I know that’s part of what’s going to happen. But to know that we have managers that are just not bought in at all is really defeating. I don’t know what I’m going to do to fix that.
AFTERWORD:
Hey all, there’s been an unusual amount of controversy around this post (see comments), seems it was posted on some facebook pages, etc. I haven’t edited the original text at all. I own it, controversy and all. But I thought it might be helpful to provide some brief comments here. It’s wonderful that so many of you care so much about Clover issues in general (as evidenced by comments), and our employees in particular. Honest discussion, and even conflict help us grow and improve. Thanks for the participation.
- Those of you who are new to this site might not be familiar: but we’re trying to build a forum for honest transparent discussion about our food and the issues we face as we find better ways to serve customers. We seek to share good and bad. You’ll find a ton of historic posts about all sorts of stuff that went wrong. It’s not all flattering, but it’s all honest. (Try searching the site for “mistake” or “accident” or “screwed up”)
- I think many assumed the goal here was admonish a Clover employee. It wasn’t. Really sorry it came across that way. I think the way I wrote the post lead to this confusion. Honestly, I was trying to share/ explore some of the issues I find most complex and challenging as we grow. Didn’t even realize it could be taken another way. There’s a reason there is no name attached to the incident.
- There wan’t any passive aggression here. I’d talked to the manager in question directly before writing the post.
- There wasn’t some higher goal other than to provide you all an honest window into some of the stuff that’s going on as we grow. I’m sure there have been times when every reader here has felt down, or like a failure, sometimes without good reason. There wasn’t an angle here, just sharing challenges.
Some people like different things. I hate omelets that are properly cooked. I think they’re slimy and gross and I’d never eat it. I’d also NEVER serve the kind of overcooked rubbery omelet I like to someone else, because I know that most people will get more enjoyment out of the thing done right.
This probably isn’t a personal insult, just a personal preference. That’s okay.
Go fly a kite. If they’re doing it *for themselves* then perhaps it’s because they’re sick of doing it the other way *for customers,* all of the time. Maybe it’s time to worry about the bigger fish and how you’re going to fit those in the fryer, to tweak a familiar metaphor.
They do it *your* way for customers, which is how one follows directions, and then varying it for something different for themselves. If there were only one way to grind coffee then why would a grinder come with multiple settings?
You seem to treat your customers and employees very well. Keep doing this.
Remember, they’re not spitting on you. They’re agreeing with you – by carrying out your explicit instructions – and then also experimenting. Take a deep breath there, chief.
I happen to like basically every coffee I’ve had at Clover, so I think your methods work well. However, I know that personal preference in coffee varies WIDELY, so it seems odd to me that there could be just one “right way” to grind or brew it, even for one particular bean or roast.
The point is that there isn’t a “your” way and a “their” way. It’s our way. If one of my managers doesn’t love the way we do coffee they owe it to all of us to bring that to our discussions and influence what we do as a company. Maybe they can improve us.
I’m talking here about leaders of our company. And for the coffee we serve, this isn’t an issue of personal preference. Not even close. There are little differences in how you could treat this coffee. We’ve played around with many techniques, etc. But what was being done here is just awful. If you question that come by, I’ll make you a side-by-side. And if that awfulness is the result of ignorance, that’s sad but not an excuse for leaders in our company. If you don’t understand something there are a ton of resources to help you educate yourself. But to ignore what so many of us have worked so hard on, Rolando, Chris, our roasters, growers, many employees, etc. is disrespectful, and for me personally really hurtful.
To reiterate and expand upon other customers’ comments, above: I believe a company culture- including a shared belief in coffee brewing methods- can be symbolic indicator of shared values that can boost morale, efficiency and, hopefully (And I believe this is so at Clover) customer experience. I think some frustration is stemming from what seems to be a dissonance in how this ‘value’ is internalized for employees, and that makes sense …
That being said, it is a rather high bar to set for your employees that, if they choose to deviate from the culture in a way that is not affecting the business output, they are called out as betraying the company. In other words, is any employee supposed to internalize every company value in all aspects of their lives? I should hope not! Furthermore, I don’t think this compromises your success as an organization. And, since I had one of your delicious cups of coffee this morning, I can say confidently that it has not compromised your product quality.
Finally, I find it pretty distasteful to call out your personal beef with your employees in an online forum for the public to see, especially since your blogs are displayed IN THE STORE. I felt pretty awkward this morning reading this message while I waited for, ahem, my coffee and knowing how awful everyone must have been feeling. That doesn’t jibe with a mutually respectful employee culture to me…
I hadn’t thought about customers feeling uncomfortable. I can understand that. Sorry. To be clear, this was a pretty specific incident. Not like all 140 employees were doing this stuff.
This is meant more as a reflection on what I’m dealing with, not an attack on specific folks. That’s why I didn’t name anybody. And of course I love my employees a lot. That’s why this is so hurtful. Otherwise I wouldn’t really care too much. And if it wasn’t clear I look at this issue as my failing. It’s also a bit of feeling of betrayal. Like most stuff it’s a complicated mix of different thoughts and emotions.
Am I expecting to dictate how my employees act in their private lives? Of course not. But we’re talking about folks making themselves coffee with company beans in the company restaurant with company equipment. I’m not exactly reaching into the living room here.
And I’m not against tweaking recipes/ etc. Or different tastes. Antoria at HSQ LOVES Flat Black and brings her own beans to work. That’s great. But if folks have ideas/ issues/ etc. they should work them out. This wasn’t what was happening in this case.
I think it might not be clear to everybody how messed-up the way the coffee was being made. Really really off. Not like “Oh, Ayr doesn’t like it this way”-off, but really yucky, and more importantly a deliberate attempt to minimize all of the things that are wonderful about our coffee and roasters. Come by and I’ll make you a sample and you can see.
If you’ve made it clear to employees that they should not use company equipment to make coffee for themselves, then you have a legitimate issue. On the other hand, if it is within policy for an employee to make coffee for themselves, they should be able to make a cup they enjoy. I presume that however “awful” the coffee is the they made, they didn’t make it that way to piss you off — they made it that way because they like it that way. So long as they are making customer coffee as you’ve mandated, I don’t believe you have an issue.
I understand you have a culture in which you want your employees — managers especially, I’d imagine — to bring up issues for discussion. But what’s the issue? I’d imagine they do believe the work you and others have put into finding excellent beans, devising the best prep and deliver methods, etc, really does result in an excellent cup of coffee. But apparently a cup of coffee they personally do not enjoy. They are not a bad employee for 1) having different tastes, or 2) not discussing with you why they prefer their method over yours.
>>>If one of my managers doesn’t love the way we do coffee they owe it to all of us to bring that to our discussions and influence what we do as a company. Maybe they can improve us.
Sounds like your employees don’t trust you. I know it’s a big pill to swallow, but why else would people hide this. eg: “If I told Ayr he would just freak out, say I’m wrong, and hate me.”
>>>more importantly a deliberate attempt to minimize all of the things that are wonderful about our coffee and roasters.
Or maybe just a deliberate attempt to make coffee the way they enjoy it. It’s madness to think your employees are trying to sabotage or marginalize clover by doing this. Would you also be so upset if they preferred French press or Chemex? Also, your reaction to this completely illustrates why people were hesitant to bring it to your attention.
If this is your attitude toward people trying different things on their own, then I would say goodbye to any culture of innovation, experimentation, or diversity with your employees.
I also completely agree with the above poster that it’s unfair, immature, and wildly unprofessional to post this sort of discussion online. Your employees don’t have the same outlet or exposure for their side of the story. This is the sort of thing you discuss with a close friend or advisor over beers, not on your very public blog.
How and what you choose to communicate to your customers and employees will shape the direction your business goes much more than how you grind your beans.
You make me coffee both ways, I… won’t be able to make two omelets…. but I could show you pictures. Pictures of the way I make omelets for others, and then the way I eat them. I have pride in the food I serve and people aren’t even paying me for it, and I would NEVER serve the horrible rubbery overcooked disgusting (to everyone but me) kinds of omelets I eat— it’s no longer an omelet. It’s not scrambled eggs. It’s congealed protein. It’s not personal preference. Only… it is.
I’m an advanced enough, educated enough human being to get that the thing I love is disgusting to most humans. But it’s what I like, so it’s what I make for myself.
Be upset about the lack of feedback and dialogue. That makes sense. But what if it turns out there is a small subset of people that derive deep satisfaction from horrible coffee, despite having had plenty of opportunities to taste and learn about bad coffee? What then? I’m not saying you need to SELL bad coffee– that would be sad. Even if a customer requests it that way. But your employees might also like fast food, or other horrible things. You can only control for people who like horrible things if you don’t have many employees, which limits your total business size……
I think this is one of the most interesting and nuanced blog posts that’s ever been put up.
I don’t always love Clover’s bean choices, but that’s just taste. Some people like different flavors. The important thing is that they’re all high-quality, and I know that. I’m always excited to try a new coffee there, because it’s poured so well; I know that I’m going to be given pretty much the best possible chance to decide whether or not I like it. In general, I think that Clover does make the best cup of coffee you can get in Boston.
I rather agree with the first commenter: sometimes people personally like things that are not, on average, very good. What can be done about this? I don’t know. Maybe nothing. If you repeatedly do a comparison between “good” coffee and “bad” coffee, some people will choose the bad coffee. Taste is a complex thing. It’s not just influenced by logic and reason. If it was, we’d all eat much better than we do. Some people have bad attitudes that were cast in childhood. Some people just have different tastebuds.
I think, Ayr, you’re assuming a bit too much about the motives of some of these employees. If someone prefers something bad, while it’s true that they’re “deliberately minimizing” what you’ve done, it’s also true that this isn’t malicious. You shouldn’t get sad because you or Rolando are being insulted or disrespected; you should get sad that, no matter how hard you try, some people just won’t get it. I think this post has a little too much of the former, and not quite enough of the latter.
You’re in the business of, on average, giving people the very best you can. On average. Some people will taste your chickpea fritter and think it should have pine needles and Velveeta in it. Maybe even an employee. You can’t feel like they’re insulting you. They’re just imperfect.
This is a really interesting comment Finn.
I get the taste difference, and have a ton of respect for that. I don’t think it would be as exciting a world if we all agreed on what tasted great. And it’s an interesting tension. I’ve found myself newly a part of a much more established community of professionals who take their jobs very very seriously, and believe in some sort of objective measure of what tastes good and what does not.
And as you point out (and the first poster did a great job pointing out with the omelet example) it’s a really complicated issue. Do I think you can state some foods are better or better prepared than others? Absolutely. Do I think we need to all agree on what those are? Not really. But it is nuanced. There are a lot of us dedicating our lives to improving food. I have a ton of respect for those like Rolando who work every day to elevate our experiences. But I still love some stuff that people look down on. Miracle whip and Cool whip are two my employees make fun of me for. I don’t eat a lot of them, but I do really appreciate them. And some of the most fond experiences I have of coffee are coffee that people would consider pretty bad (diner coffee, Folgers at my Grandmother’s house).
And I don’t really care if those who inspired this story love our coffee. It’s a poorly kept secret that I pick tea over coffee 10:1 in my personal life. But I respect our coffee, as I do other types of coffee or methods I might not like at all (French Press), and the people who work so hard to move them forward, albeit in very different directions.
I’m also a little over being sad. But I’m still not sure what we change to do a better job of getting everybody to best place on this stuff. And afraid this isn’t the last of this type of incident.
I dunno man, if I was getting paid food industry wages to serve the type of customers we get here in Cambridge, then I’d be making my own personal coffee the way I like it. I’d have to be making at least $15/hr plus tips to fully lie to myself that the company way is the best way to the point where I’d betray my own policies to create the appearance that I cared that much about the job. You pay your employees for their time and for executing the job right. You don’t pay entry level or mid-management employees to convert their entire world view to your own.
I’m not employed by clover but I do have close friends in the food industry, in Cambridge, and really you are honestly asking too much as an employer to feel the way you do.
America runs on dunkin.
I found the link to this post on Facebook and clicked to read, having heard interesting things about your trucks/projects and now space. I live in NYC and have never been, but was looking forward to it next time I was in town…until I saw this.
An endeavor like yours requires nothing more than an “all for one” approach. If an employee fails you, upsets you, or otherwise pushes your buttons you owe it to your company and to yourself to deal with it in a manner befitting YOUR high taste level when it comes to your product. It is that simple.
I understand the desire to explain the situation to your customers, and that the gut reaction to place blame on someone (in a public forum no less) is an easy, if not overly emotional fix. Did this person(s) disappoint you? Totally. But as an owner, a boss, and a member of a community that has supported you, you owe it to them all to correct the problem immediately and internally. Not to mention with a public apology that fits the culture you have worked so hard to create…
Of course this is not the last time an employee will disappoint you or fail to live up to your expectations. Maybe the public flogging that has reached down to New York will be recognized by your current staff as a warning against future missteps. I only ask that when these things happen you stop first to think about companies and people you admire and try to respond accordingly.
“Coffee Rules You Drool” — I’d like for all of my employees to be doing something they love and feel great about.
Ayr, Sounds like you’d like for your employees to be doing something YOU love.
What they “love and feel great about” is obviously setting the grinder finer than you like. They probably don’t feel the same about your nagging them to drink coffee the way you “love and feel great about.” You can’t know how your employees like their coffee, no matter how much you learn on the subject. They are entitled to have it how they want it, and will do so whether you find out or not. Any attempt to enforce conformity of taste will not only fail, but give you a reputation as a pest and a bully.
They might someday, but I don’t think anyone has childhood dreams of making people coffee for a living.
This is exactly the sort of petty stuff that makes me dislike a person and an establishment. You are a terrible boss and sounds like you are also a super annoying person. I wont be supporting you. You probably feel like you are the only show in town and can be as much of an ass as you want. Say goodbye to a former customer who used to come to the truck 3 times a week. I will likely complain about your attitude to my friends as well. Later.
Dan — Wow man, that’s really mean-spirited. I think you managed to criticize a huge number of people in one swipe. A bunch of us are doing EXACTLY what we dream of. What’s better than food and people?
(feel free not to post this, don’t wish to draw more attention but just had something i wanted to share with you about this and wasn’t sure where to send it)
Preliminary, less interesting point: so, I think people points earlier are valid that taste is subjective. i’d go beyond that and say that its not even about taste in this case (in my mind) but experience/habit. However the coffee was being made (i’m imagining way too fine a grind, so bitter, probably sedimenty or at least too much body), you can imagine this is maybe how the person grew up tasting coffee. its what they’re used to, or maybe more strongly, it evokes some fond memory or sense of routine. i think there’s a comfort in the smell and taste of diner coffee. so in that sense its not even about what coffee ‘tastes’ better but what feels more at home in your coffee ritual. maybe. *however* what i think is actually your stronger case/point is this:
the way they were making coffee was a misuse of the quality of beans being used, and that is what makes it sad. whatever argument one makes about taste/experience, there is a right way to utilize good coffee beans, well a few right ways, and a lot of wrong ones. the method you described would produce basically the same flavor form a $1/pound bag of coffee (if anyone sells that) and a $60/pound. and that i think is what legitimately could make you sad. if you’re going to use a good product, then use it right.
same thing as the omelet story above. however you like your omelet, fair enough. but if the end result would be the same using the cheapest (enviro/etc. concerns aside) possible, i am going to feel terrible if you are wasting tons of money on the most expensive pristine eggs only to transform them into a product that could have been created with a lower caliber ingredient.
The taste/experience is secondary to this issue for me. You should always respect and understand the kinds of ingredients you use and how to work them.
Thanks for comment Troy –
This is really complex stuff, right? Of course peoples taste varies, right? But there are somethings that aren’t subjective. If you want a roast-heavy coffee you’re not going to get it with the stuff we’re selling, no matter how fine you grind it.
We did a tasting the other day with our managers and tried: double coffee amount, 1/2 coffee amount, fine grind, coarse grind. I think it was really educational for everybody, and stunning how different the same coffee, same technique, can taste.